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Comments on: Titanic Mystery Solved? https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740 Bringing obscurity into focus Thu, 11 Apr 2019 15:39:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.0.22 By: Karen Buckley https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-71792 Wed, 09 Jul 2014 05:20:38 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-71792 Still confused about the iron gate mystery. Did gates prevent steerage passengers from getting to the lifeboats or not?

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By: Daniel Victor https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-37056 Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:29:57 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-37056 “The iceberg wrongly (and in this case the rivets*) gets all the attention of, books, movies and TV documentaries, because the crucial event of the Titanic tragedy actually several minutes after the accident. The pivotal event that night was a decision to get the ship moving again.” David G. Brown “The Last Log of the Titanic” 2001 *mine. The amount of water taken on that doomed the ship during the time that the ship started to move forward after the collision is illustrated in Mr. Brown’s book. Also the introduction to the above introduction to this topoc ends with, “If true, it explains why she sunk so quickly and finally solves the ultimate riddle associated with the sinking of the great Cunard Line ship.” Not Cunard, please, it was the White Star Line. Thank you. DVC

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By: Valerie Protopapas https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-24154 Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:19:27 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-24154 Ismay wanted the Titanic to break speed records, certainly. It was a very competitive field and the company with the biggest, most luxurious and FASTEST boats got the most wealthy clients. HOWEVER, the real money came from the steerage passengers and there was no hurry getting them to Ellis Island.

Smith was in charge. It was his last voyage before his retirement and they had asked him to stay on to take Titanic on her maiden voyage because he had fulfilled that role for a number of years as the “senior” captain. But Smith was not a bad captain. Luck was against him. Remember, there were any number of EXTREMELY unusual circumstances that night. First, the North Atlantic was a mill pond; there were not only no waves, BUT NO SWELL. Had there been swell, water would have broken on base of the berg and made it visible for miles. Secondly, the berg had just “turned over”, that is, it was upside down and the area exposed to view was made up of “black ice” rather than the very visible white coloring with which people are familiar when they think of ice bergs. Third, there was just a hint of mist in the air which is rather natural as it was dead calm (hence, no swell). There was just enough mist or fog that the “black burg” with no wavelets at its base was VERY difficult to see. There was no moon although the night was fairly bright with stars. However, the lighting on the ship was such that it would have been difficult for the men on lookout to be able to see without any moonlight to assist. There were no binoculars in the crow’s nest; along with many other things on the brand new Titanic, the matter of insufficient binoculars had yet to be addressed. The problem of the “newness” of the crew also did much to cause problems with filling and lowering the lifeboats as many crew members – and even some of the officers – were not well versed in their lifeboat duties. Captain Smith had chosen not to have any life-board drills on the ship because (and this may have been Ismany’s doing) it was believed that such drills made the passengers uneasy, making them think about disasters – NOT the atmosphere the White Star Line was attempting to create for its VERY well paying customers.

The biggest problem with Ismay is that he did not – like Smith and the other officers – go down with the ship. Andrews, the designer, chose to remain on board and was drowned, but Ismay got into a half empty life boat and was saved. Of all the incidents that night, Ismay’s perceived cowardice in taking a place in one of the lifeboats (though the boat was only half filled and other men were in it) forever sealed his doom as at least one of the scapegoats of the tragedy. But there was blame enough to go round, frankly.

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By: Dan https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-24103 Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:01:34 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-24103 The 1997 movie seemed to take the same “anti-corporation” tone, I noticed. Bruce Ismay, the ship’s designer, is portrayed as the insufferably arrogant “company man” who seems to have a hand in deciding on the ship’s dangerous, high-speed passage through the sea. Captain Smith, on the other hand, seems to be a pawn, resigned to his fate, unable to make his own decisions. The previous film, “S.O.S. Titantic” (1978) took exactly the opposite tack: there, Captain Smith is firmly in charge, and Ian Holm’s Bruce Ismay is the one who is quite powerless to effect events. I wonder which version was closer to the truth…

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By: Valerie Protopapas https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23921 Thu, 17 Apr 2008 16:31:18 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23921 The bottom was torn out of the Titanic when her massive boilers and engines dislodged as she went to the vertical and plunged through the ship exiting through the bow section. The original damage was along a 360 foot section of (if I remember aright) the starboard side but certainly did not tear off any part of her. Yes, the ship sank slowly and though she did list to starboard (if that’s the side the incurred the injury), the slow advance of the water through the watertight compartments along with her excellent pumps kept her fairly level until she finally raised up, stern high in the air, bow under. That is when the boilers and engines plunged through the ship and out of the bow. She then settled slowly and so gently that a cook standing on the end of the stern simply stepped into the water and didn’t even get his head wet. He was picked up afterward very little the worse for wear having fortified himself with almost an entire bottle of brandy!

There is no doubt, however, that the high carbon steel was brittle and certainly contributed to the disaster. Another thing that also contributed was the way the ship was designed. When the berg was sighted, the Officer of the Watch order her “full astern” to slow her down as well as ordered her “hard to port” (again, if I remember aright) to turn away from the berg. Now to go full astern from almost full ahead required the engines to come to “all stop” and then on to “full astern” just as with a car you cannot go from drive to reverse without stopping the car. The Titanic was designed so that when the engines went to “all stop” THE RUDDER WAS DISENGAGED. That meant that the ship did not begin her turn (it only took second to bring the device on the bridge to “all stop”) until the engines stopped and then restarted backing water. That period of about 12 to 15 seconds was enough to insure that she traveled too far to miss the berg. Had Murdoch (the Officer involved) brought the ship to “slow ahead”, she would have begun to turn immediately and MAY have missed the berg altogether even though she continued moving forward. It’s, of course, speculation, but the fact is that by moving the “throttle” (don’t know what you call the device) to “all stop”, the rudder was disengaged and the ship continued on her original course until the engines began to move again at “all back full”.

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By: Alton Bunn https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23849 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:01:23 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23849 Correction: Col Gracie wrote about Chickamauga.
As for the rivets, a contributing factor not the sole reason.

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By: Alton Bunn https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23848 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:50:53 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23848 Here’s a civil war hook: Col Archibald Gracie, a Titanic survivor, wrote a detailed book about the Petersburg campaign. Also, his father died at Petersburg.

As for the keel pieces found, they came off when the ship broke apart. In the videos they showed no signs impact damage.

As for the Olympic she had problems with hull cracks that developed after a few years. She eventually had to operate under speed restrictions.

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By: Caswain https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23776 Wed, 16 Apr 2008 02:06:25 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23776 How about a Civil War “hook”? Seems that many cannon made prior the Civil War also suffered from similar brittleness and a general lack of endurance. The most famous episode perhaps the bursting of a gun on the USS Princeton in 1844. Years of scrutiny and trials pointed to the use of hot-blast furnace techniques (introduced in the 1820s) and high carbon content. Eventually, through continued testing a process for measuring the specific gravity of iron samples to determine the best blend, was developed. William Wade at the Fort Pitt Foundry in Pittsburgh was the leader in this discovery. Ultimately, this supported the later developments of John Dahlgren, Thomas J. Rodman, Robert Parrott and John Griffen, who collectively were responsible for most of the patterns of iron guns used during the Civil War. Of course this was all before the Bessimer Process. Yet I have to wonder why the lessons learned with stress patterns and high carbon content iron alloys were not heeded.

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By: Chuck https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23773 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:20:26 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23773 I only brought up Olympic (as did Harland & Wolff) because the claim is being made that the ships were built with “cheap” materials. The fact that the so-called “cheap” rivets lasted 24 years on Olympic without an issue is absolutely relevant in refuting the “cheap” charge.
To be honest it wouldn’t have mattered what rivets they used the Titanic was doomed when it crashed into the iceberg at the speed she was traveling.
It is unfortunate that these folks wish to blame the builders for the negligence of the captain and officers.

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By: Jim Morgan https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740&cpage=1#comment-23769 Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:32:50 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=740#comment-23769 Doesn’t sound convincing to me.

I read not long ago (don’t remember where) that an intact, 60-foot long section of Titanic’s keel has been found a couple of miles from the main wreckage site. It apparently was torn off during the collision which indicates that the bottom of the ship, not just the side, hit the iceberg.

If only one side had been breached, wouldn’t the ship have listed heavily to that side? My understanding is that she settled more or less evenly by the bow. Is that not correct?

Doesn’t seem to me that any number of popped rivets would have added much to the damage done by that missing chunk of keel.

Nor does the Olympic’s experience seem relevant here. It isn’t likely that she ever hit anything remotely as hard as the Titanic hit that iceberg. I’d think that the rivets might well have been fine for the normal design stresses but that even much higher quality rivets would have popped from the impact with an iceberg.

Just my thoughts.

Oh, and I do know that during that most recent, godawful movie I was rooting for the iceberg. I’ll take Clifton Webb and Barbara Staywyck any day.

Jim Morgan

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