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Comments on: Little Mac and Dougout Doug https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480 Bringing obscurity into focus Thu, 11 Apr 2019 15:39:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.0.22 By: John Foskett https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49408 Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:33:25 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49408 MacArthur was not a “battlefield commander” in WWII – he was an army commander. Whether his ego summoned enough bravado to be in the “front lines” would merely establish that he had no grasp of his proper role in that war. As for me, I want to see the photo of Doug looking out the window of his mistress’s hotel room in Manila on December 8, wondering why there was all that smoke and noise coming from the direction of Clark Field. Equally as dramatic as the photo of him striding ashore on Leyte.

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By: Ralph Hitchens https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49404 Thu, 20 Dec 2012 15:00:23 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49404 MacArthur not a great battlefield commander? He certainly did not shrink from frequenting the front lines, in both World Wars — highly decorated as a brigade commander in the First. Also, I can understand Lee’s comment about McClellan. He confronted “Little Mac” at the Seven Days, where his losses exceeded Union losses, and again in the Antietam campaign, where he held on by a whisker. It’s also been argued that McClellan’s peninsular campaign was the only original strategic approach to Richmond during the war.

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By: John Foskett https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49387 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 20:08:26 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49387 I guess Dugout was fortunate that multiple photographers were present to capture that spontaneous moment from multiple angles – plus the speech on the beach, laden with histrionics for the Filipino people. If I recall correctly, the “staged” aspect was denied a few years back by Bill Dunn in his book – Dunn, of course, can be seen striding ashore with Dugout and was tight with the General. The whole thing was consistent with that quote about Dugout which was attributed to Ike. Little Mac, so far as I know, never got his pants wet for Brady or Gardner, although the photographic process was primitive in those days.

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By: Charlie Knight https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49385 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:49:21 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49385 Photo was NOT staged, that rumor began as photos of him wading ashore at other beachheads were taken in the following days (1st Cav, 7th Inf Div, 96th Inf Div). The intent was not for him to get wet at all at Leyte, but rather to be dropped right on the beach but the landing craft was unable to get in close enough. The fighting was about 1/2 mile to 1 mile inland in the area of Palo where he landed. Kenney – who was with him – recorded that sniper fire was still prevalent in the area (although Kenney also wrote that MacArthur was unarmed but in fact Mac had a Colt revolver visibly in his back trouser pocket, in addition to the small Derringer he always carried concealed in his coat pocket).

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By: Dennis https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49381 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:09:49 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49381 I have little regard for either. They are perhaps the two most overblown egomaniacs in our military history.

Dougie lost me when I first read his comments that threw General Wainwright under the bus for the loss of the Philippines in John Toland’s “But Not in Shame.” The true stars of the Pacific were the navy since it would have been kind of difficult for the army to march from island to island.

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By: John Foskett https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49375 Tue, 18 Dec 2012 22:43:38 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49375 Scott: I think you’re right about the cost/benefit analysis of the New Guinea campaign. The sorry truth behind the southwest Pacific strategy was that it was driven by MacArthur’s unlimited ego and his need to stage that photo opp of him wading ashore in the Philippines – which if I recall correctly had to be reshot a couple of times until Dugout Doug figured it had the right Hollywood features, while American kids were fighting Japanese troops a little further inland. The Pacific War, as noted, was won by the campaigns led by Nimitz. To repeat, McClellan was a rank amateur compared to MacArthur in the realm of self-worship and was probably a better general, for all his faults. And I am very, very far from being a defender of Little Mac, Galena and all.

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By: Scott Smart https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49362 Tue, 18 Dec 2012 02:50:58 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49362 Not sure I really see that much connection between McClellan and MacArthur. I do agree with previous post on the New Guinea campaign. Given FDR’s grand strategy of Europe first, it doesn’t seem like the resources needed for the New Guinea campaign were worth the strategic result. Though I suppose to some extent the need to placate the Aussies, Brits, and Dutch played a role. I think the New Guinea campaign though forced the Solomons campaign to protect MacArthur’s flank, and I don’t see the cost of the Solomons as being worth the strategic result. For both McClellan and MacArthur, it might be interesting to consider how they approached joint warfare with naval forces, and how successful they were.

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By: Chris Evans https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49360 Tue, 18 Dec 2012 01:02:05 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49360 Yes, the Meuse-Argonne offensive was quite a mess. I don’t think I knew how exactly how bad until I read, ‘To Conquer Hell: The Meuse-Argonne, 1918 The Epic Battle That Ended the First World War’ by Edward G. Lengel.

Lengel has some choice words about MacArthur in the book.

I thought the American Experience from 1999 on MacArthur was quite well done. I recommend everyone to seek it out. Maybe they’ll do an excellent one on McClellan someday.

The transcript is located at: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/filmmore/transcript/index.html

I like some of the quotes from it, a commentator says about MacArthur,
“One colleague during the Pacific War described him as someone who combined a sense of courage, vanity, ego, insight, but his greatest fault, he said, was some one who mistook his emotions and ambitions for principles, and he could never distinguish between the two.”

And it ends with some great turns of phrase:
“MacArthur had had time to think about where he would be buried. West Point was special to him. He would be there, in time, at the edge of the Plain. Across from the best clerk he ever had, Ike, who never led a charge. Pleased no doubt that he occupied more real estate than Eisenhower. Acknowledging, perhaps, the prominence accorded Washington.

There was room at West Point — next to the son of President Ulysses S. Grant. But for Douglas MacArthur sons of Presidents was not Presidential enough. He accepted a site that gave him the equivalent of a Presidential library. With a museum, an archive, a gift shop, and a splendid place to rest. With room for Jean beside him.

Douglas MacArthur was buried as he was born — to the sound of bugles. His funeral was replete with all the ceremony that he had come to cherish as a boy at the army post at Ft. Selden, New Mexico. Unlike his father, he was buried in his army uniform.

On April 11, 1964, one of the greatest soldiers in the history of the United States Army was buried in Norfolk, Virginia.

A Navy town.”

Chris

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By: John Foskett https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49358 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 22:54:42 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49358 Those are valid points (to some degree) regarding WWI but MacArthur was only a brigade commander and the Meuse-Argonne offensive was a logistical and tactical mess for the most point (due to reasons beyond MacArthur’s command level or responsibility). The comparison with McClellan involves army command, however, and I’ve already pointed out problems with MacArthur’s performance at that level in WWII. I’m not clear on the implication of MacArthur’s “aggressive” intentions which led to his recall in Korea. MacArthur had foolishly (and as it turns out wrongly) assured Truman that the PRC would not intervene in Korea. After that proved 100% innaccurate, he urged Truman to expand the conflict and invade China. Fortunately Truman had a much clearer vision of why and how to keep the Korean War limited without inviting the USSR to respond, perhaps with nukes. And maybe that’s the biggest difference between MacArthur and McClellan. The latter might have bordered on insubordinate but he could hardly be accused of wreckless, even foolish, judgment. For the record, I am far from a revisionist on McClellan. But MacArthur’s blind egotism was more dangerous.

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By: Charlie Knight https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480&cpage=1#comment-49356 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:20:36 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=3480#comment-49356 I think MacArthur’s reputation and abilities as a battlefield commander are being undervalued here. His WWI record with the Rainbow Division was stellar and his troops from the Great War loved him, in marked contrast to the feelings of many of his troops in WWII.

As to MacArthur’s presidential aspirations, he attempted to gain the Republican nomination three times: 1944, 1948 and 1952. His problem in the first two attempts was that he would not declare himself an official candidate, instead preferring to get political friends to work behind the scenes to get him nominated. Circumstances were somewhat different for him in regard to the 1952 election.

Craig hit the nail on the head – McClellan’s greatest fault was his lack of aggression. In the end, MacArthur was sacked for pursuing a total victory – the only kind of victory in war in his mind.

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