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Comments on: Military History in a Social History World https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125 Bringing obscurity into focus Thu, 11 Apr 2019 15:39:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.0.22 By: Sam Elliott https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-603 Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:08:49 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-603 I think its pretty well balanced. It may lean to the social side just a little bit, but the point is to identify the men who fought in this unique regiment. It was one of the few CS regiments from East Tennessee that was worth a damn, and JD tries to answer why.

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By: The General https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-597 Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:47:56 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-597 Sam,

How is the mix? Does it lean heavily toward one direction? Or is it pretty even?

Eric

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By: Sam Elliott https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-595 Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:39:35 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-595 Another good regimental that looks at the social background of the unit’s soldiers is JD Fowler’s Mountaineers in Gray, which examines the men and experience of the 19th Tennessee.

Sam Elliott

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By: Andy https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-582 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:51:50 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-582 Eric, I like to see myself as a Civil War Historian which in my own limited view means that I like to study all aspects of the war both military and social. My focus has been on the individual soliders and the First Maine Heavy Artillery which to me means I need to have some understanding of the social background of the soliders (ie. economic background, famliy, etc) and the tactical military situation they were put into. Maybe my slant toward regimental histories allows my to see need for both. I actually enjoyed Hagerty’s book becuse it combined these elements. He could have done a better job weaving the two togther. I think Miller’s book does a very good job bringing togther the social and military history elements to tell the story of the 20th Mass.

Regards
Andy

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By: Mike Peters https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-581 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 04:14:50 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-581 Richard:

My “Amen” to Eric’s sermon had more to do with my CW reading/studying preferences. I’ll take a good regimental, well-researched bio or indepth campaign study & let others debate the cause(s) of the conflict.

Mike

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By: The General https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-580 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:55:15 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-580 Richard,

Actually, it me who said he was interested in soldiers’ motivations and in the men who fought. Mike Peters was just seconding my comments.

Having said that, your point is well-taken and only elaborates on my original point, which is that while the two disciplines are intertwined, there are nevertheless clear boundaries, and social historians seem to lose interest the moment that boundary is reached.

Eric

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By: The General https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-579 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:52:49 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-579 Dave,

I fear that a lot of this is symptomatic of the trend toward political correctness that permeates this country. Touchy-feely is PC. Military history is not. It may be that simple.

I think that the PC factor, in turn, helps to drive the demand/supply for teachers. If there were more interest–less PC, in other words–perhaps there would be more supply.

Eric

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By: Richard F. Miller https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-578 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:22:15 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-578 First, most academic social historians have no interest in military history because they have no military experience or sympatico with those that do have such experience. That being said, allow me to offer what may turn out to be a minority view here: “social” history and “military” history are in fact, (to paraphrase Holmes, Jr.) “a seamless web.” Take one of the factors cited by Mr. Peters as being of interest to him–soldiers’ motivations. One cannot understand motivation without first considering the following factors (among others): private and civil religion, c. 1860; the immigrant experience for at least 25% of the Federal army; the highly gendered nature of family life during this period; social class and its impact on recruiting, staying power in the field, and the relationship between officers and the ranks; the broader economy, especially the relationship between employment, wages and recruiting; in short, Mr. Peters’ interest in “the men who fought” is by nature social, since every man who did so was a product of socialization (including, by the way, his race.)

So as a “general statement” there is no such thing as a pure Civil War “military” history that somehow orbits in the past a separate sphere.

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By: Dave Kelly https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-577 Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:38:22 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-577 Philosophically, one has to realize that in a supply and demand universe there are a limited number of chairs and many aspirants to fill them. Life isn’t fair or reasonable; it’s survivalist.

Intellectual revenge comes in the form of exception. Institutional intellectualism seldom has epiphanies. The really good stuff is usually an outlaw brainfart by some lil’ole genius out cruising on his own…

Kevin’s handwringing and other hardcore instituionalist insistence that military historians are “square pegs” is laughable. They were writing military history a long time before enlightened touch-me feel me socially responsible intellects decided what is now important. (I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect la la la 😉 ). (Tell that to religious based fundamentalists, drug lords, and the starving illiterate welter of the third world looking hungrily at the fat cities of New Rome…)

I could go on, but its not my soap box. (PS: two of the great innovative minds in 20th Century Classical Music were Americans, Charles Ives and Ed. Alden Carpenter. Both were professionally Insurance Salesman.)

Just a manic ramble…

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By: Mike Peters https://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125&cpage=1#comment-576 Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:14:10 +0000 http://civilwarcavalry.com/?p=125#comment-576 t care less. Issues such as slavery and its consequences, and the consequences for the freedmen simply are of no interest to me. What interests me are the military aspects–the battles, the men who fought them, and their motivations. Social trends mean nothing to me in the big scheme of things, with the lone exception of how they might impact on those aspects that do interest me. Eric: All I can add to the above is AMEN! Mike]]> Eric wrote:

And, I must admit, as a general statement, social history is a discipline that bears absolutely no interest for me. Genuinely, I couldn’t care less. Issues such as slavery and its consequences, and the consequences for the freedmen simply are of no interest to me. What interests me are the military aspects–the battles, the men who fought them, and their motivations. Social trends mean nothing to me in the big scheme of things, with the lone exception of how they might impact on those aspects that do interest me.

Eric:

All I can add to the above is AMEN!

Mike

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